How Reality is negotiated in Witchcraft and Esotericism

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Hello everyone I’m Dr. Angela Puca and welcome to my live-stream Symposium. As you know, as most of you know, I’m a PhD and a university lecturer and this is your online space, in some cases a live stream space, for the academic study of magick, shamanism, esotericism, paganism, and related currents – basically all the traditions that engage with some kind of magickal practice. I’m really interested in how magick is entangled with religious traditions and different forms of even religious thought. So, first off, thank you so much for all of you who are here in the live.

I can see Andrew. Hi Andrew. and ArielGl0ris and Inquisitor Vex and astrogypsy. Nice to see you all of you guys and also yeah congratulations to all of us for the 20,000 subscribers. I’m quite pleased to see that our channel and our project is growing. Yeah it is you know, it sort of allows me to find the motivation to move forward and to keep producing videos and content for you guys.

Oh hi Sean. I can see that Sean has joined. Hi Sean and hi James if you’re here? He’s a kind supporter of the symposium. Hi Rebecca. Oh Rebecca says, “You give me so much confidence to not have to be in the broom closet.” Really? That’s nice to hear. I think that it’s quite fascinating to me and I really, you know, it is rewarding for me to know that academic knowledge and the research that we do, in the field, is important and valuable for you guys. And that’s why I have this YouTube channel because I really want to bridge the gap between the academic knowledge which tends to be, you know, not as accessible in some cases. And I really like to offer it to you guys and thanks to the help of all of you who share my content, and like and subscribe, and comment and, of course, those who pledge to my patron and send off donations so this is possible. So, I cannot thank you enough. Well I guess I can thank you with the content I produce and I keep producing. But also with my heartfelt gratitude.

So let’s see what is going to what we are going to do today.

So today, we are going to discuss Belief-Making and Decision-Making in relation to magic practices. So you might ask how come Angela has thought of doing such a topic? [It] was even, honestly, difficult for me to set a title, because, basically, I am designing a post-doctoral research proposal and so I am investigating matters that pertain to what we are going to cover in this live stream. But of course, these are more tangent. But since I was going there I thought; well perhaps my audience might enjoy the reflections and the ideas and the thoughts that emerged, the speculations, even, that emerged from this research that I’ve been doing and so, hopefully, you will let me know. I look forward to hearing that.

So, what are we going to talk about? So we’re going to talk about the realness for magic “experiencers”, which means basically how people, who engage in practice of magick, conceive something to be real. We will clarify terminology just in a few seconds. But for now, bear with me, then we will go on to discussing how belief making and decision making works and also group dynamics and how they lead to determine what is factual and what is not factual. So hopefully it’s gonna be interesting.

I will do my talk first and then I will answer your questions but please feel free to ask away throughout the conversation, throughout my talk so that by the end of it I will have your questions and yeah, I can imagine that different points in the conversation may spark different interests and doubts or questions or curiosities.

So when you want to ask a question, please ask your question by typing, first in caps lock, “QUESTION” so that it makes it easier for me to see your question because I imagine that you will also be discussing amongst yourselves, which is totally fine and I actually encourage it. But equally, for me, it makes it easier to pinpoint which messages are actually questions and which ones are conversations between yourselves. So please do so and it will make things much easier and smoother.

So let’s start then. So as I said, here we are going to talk about realness in a way but I will not tackle the ontological reality of magic but rather the phenomenological reality according to practitioners. So first let’s clarify this terminology: ontology is the branch of philosophy that studies what does exist and phenomenology studies what is experienced to exist. So these two are clearly very different it’s not what exists beyond anyone’s observation or experience here we are talking about what is real or rather, better even, what is factual according to the experience of certain agents in this case magic practitioners. In fact a term that I will be using is fact or factual. Fact or factual is an accurate assertion according to the inter-subjective experience. The inter-subjective experience is different from the objective experience because objective experience implies that there is a reality that is objective and there is no interference on the part of those who experience that reality and no alteration over time. Whereas the inter-subjective experience is to, a certain degree, something that we all share. So for instance, we all consider to be factual; that if I have a bottle of water and I just let it be – it will drop to the floor and that is something that we consider to be factual. Whether the bottle of water actually truly ultimately exists that is a matter for ontology. Here we are talking about phenomenology and the experience and how come we label and define certain experiences in one way or another.

As you may know, since I know that most of you are practitioners of magic or you like magic or you study magic or esotericism and related topics, magic practitioners specifically have to face the issue and the stigma of holding beliefs and engaging in rituals that are in contrast with the dominant paradigm – with the dominant framework, the dominant belief system. This is quite interesting because then it sort of allows the question; how come magic practitioners believe in the factuality of magic even if they are living in a wider society that does not accept it?

And this is true for the contemporary time but as we saw in the interview with Professor Ronald Hutton. He also said, in that interview, that this has been the case for history and the mainstream or the dominant paradigm, dominant religious system or the dominant theoretical framework has changed over time. But what appears to never change is the rejection of magic. So that makes it particularly interesting in this sense; how come magic practitioners still believe in the reality of magic even when the surrounding, everything that surrounds them, sort of opposes that view and that belief? So let’s see.

In order to understand and to answer this question, we have to first clarify a few things. So one thing that I’ve found in my research lately since I’m reading a lot to sort of form an idea and a research proposal for my postdoc. One thing that is often found in sociology and different branches of research, even in economics and in political science, something that is often found, is that there is a discrepancy between the individual behaviour and the group behaviour. So what happens here is that the behaviour of the individuals is widely unpredictable. Because every person is subject to their own story, which is obviously different for each and every one of us. Every one of us has different reactions to even the same events. So the individual behaviour is quite unpredictable but interestingly, when the individual is found in a group, then their behaviour becomes more predictable and it starts to follow certain patterns. And that is quite fascinating because it allows for a certain predictability and for a better understanding of certain behaviours and especially in this case. As I mentioned, I talk about decision making and belief making and these two terms usually are used and investigated in non-religious contexts but here we are trying to understand how the belief in magic and in the factuality of magic and the results of magic can exist within an opposing view and with people living in a community that widely opposes that.

So as we said, the individual’s behaviour is unpredictable but then you put the individual in a group and then the behaviour becomes predictable. And what is the group then? The group in the past used to be the geographical, was defined by the geographical area the person was living in, that was the limitation of the community basically and it was the group where your agency as an individual would manifest and interact. But now that is not the case any more, because now we don’t live any longer in one geographical place, we live in different geographical places, perhaps, across our lives and also we don’t only live in the physical space but we also live in the online space and we interact with people who live far away from us. And so what defines really the group that you are part of? And this would be a completely different talk if we were to investigate it in details. But to make it brief, the group that tends to influence your behaviour the most is the one that you identify with the most. So we all have certain characteristics and traits of our personality and our identity, that we consider to be more important, more relevant to our identity making – to what constitutes our identity. There are certain elements and certain areas of our life that tend to be more relevant. And that area and the people you share that with, the kind of group, the kind of community, that you share it with will tend to have more of an impact on your belief making and decision making. Of course, we also live in a multi-layered society and so it’s not going to be just one group that we are part of but a few different groups – although there tends to be certain groups with similarities. You tend to see that groups that have similar ideologies and they tend to be found, to associate more. But let’s see what happens here

16:04 (Slide change)

So once we have clarified that. Okay the individual behaviour is not predictable when the individual is in a group. Their behaviour, when the individual is in a group, their behaviour and their belief making and decision making, when it comes to what is real, what is not real, or rather what is factual, what is not factual becomes more predictable because you have patterns of behaviour that emerge from the communities and from the groups. And then we have clarified that the groups that will affect you the most, are the ones that are closer to what constitutes what you believe, that constitutes your identity. Now what are these elements that will define what you believe to be true? And will determine your decision making and your belief making within this group or these groups.

A couple of papers that I found really interesting are these two ones that I mention here: “Scientific Polarization” and “How to Beat Science and Influence People” by Weatherall and O’Connor. They authored both papers. It is quite interesting because in this case they are not talking about religion. Actually these themes tend to addressed more in fields, such as, for example, decision making. Decision making tends to be addressed more in economics, for instance. And then you have the idea of belief making and even in this case decision making and the polarization of ideas that has been considered quite interesting lately because of what is going on in the world. And social scientists have tried to understand how come certain ideas become polarized and how come, regardless of inputs from the outside world, regardless of hard data, people will still not update their understanding and their knowledge regarding what is real and what is factual in their surroundings. So in trying to understand that, scholars are investigating what constitutes, what defines and what drives a person to believe in something and discard something else. What data is acquired and elaborated and what kind of data is completely set aside.

So, drawing from those papers and elaborating it, according to this talk, two interesting elements, that I found that were mentioned in those papers and I think apply in our case too, is that there are these two main elements, these two main traits that will determine whether something is affecting the decision-making and the belief making of an individual. One is conformity, because people tend to want to conform to different degrees, of course, depending on the individual, but to different degrees people will tend to conform to the group the person belongs to or identifies with. Then you have trust or reliability – which means how reliable is the source of information and whether or not I update my knowledge in light of new data. So, for instance, the reliability of the data, that comes from the outside as inputs, will be acquired and accepted by the individual insofar as that data is considered to be trustworthy. And that may mean, because it comes from a person that you trust – a person that you know won’t lie to you according to your experience, it can be because it comes from a reliable source like an academic, if you espouse that kind of idea that academic knowledge is reliable (which I do) and then, depending on what you consider what the group considers, and what the individual considers to be trustworthy and reliable then the new information can be accepted or rejected in terms of whether it affects, or not, or updates or not, the understanding of the world and the understanding of reality.

Of course if you think that the data that is coming is corrupted or there are ulterior motives, or there are reasons as to why the data is uncertain or unreliable, or outright false – you will not, make it your own – you will not accept that data and then change and alter your, update your understanding and your knowledge accordingly.

Now what happens with people who believe in magic and practice magic? As we said, trust – conformity is important and we said conformity, in our case, in the case of magic practitioners, will be conformity to the group of, to groups of other magical practitioners. It could be a coven, it could be a tradition that the person is part of when it comes to trust. So the first one is, we said, is conformity so we need to conform to a group and in the case of magical practitioners it means a coven or a tradition.

And then you have the matter of trust. Now this trust towards the source of information leads to rejection of input data and failure to adapt one’s knowledge of the world according to that new data. What happens with magic practitioners is just about that. So there is a breaking point, when the person who believes in magic or practices magic, has a disruptive event, perhaps in their life, or a chain of events in their life, that will break them away from the dominant theoretical framework, and this is my hypothesis – this is not a published paper or a peer-reviewed article, this is me speculating over what I read – and hypothesizing. So here what happens is that the magic practitioners often, for example, during childhood or even during adulthood, may have experienced or report they experienced visions or that they have engaged in a magical ritual which had an effective change in their reality. When these events happen, this can be a breaking point and a turning point, where there starts to be a sort of distrust into what has been told up till that point. And yet, usually, it isn’t a total distrust of the dominant worldview but it is enough of a distrust, that has been planted, that there is this sort of mismatch that allows for the magic practitioner to challenge that worldview and start to, in a way, create his own or her own.

So, as I mentioned here on the power-point, for magic practitioners, there is a mismatch between the theoretical framework and their factual experience. So the theoretical framework what has been told is something that is not matching one’s experience. What happens when you have a theory around you a cultural theory, a dominant cultural theory that does not quite reflect what you are experiencing and perhaps would other peers that have similar experiences are are living in their lives.

So one other paper that I really find interesting actually all the works by Martin Stringer I find to be particularly fascinating and interesting. He’s quite known among religious studies scholars and the thing he’s most known for is the elaboration, the theorization of the so-called … (sorry I blanked out) …so he theorizes that there is a different way of seeing beliefs and you don’t have just one consistent belief system but actually you can have situational beliefs. Yeah, that’s the term I was looking for – situational beliefs. So what Stringer says is that there are people and this is something that, in his case, he has done research with Christians, evangelical Christians but he reports that that has also been witnessed among Roman Catholics and this is also something that I experience with, for example, magick practitioners, witches, and shamanic practitioners and that is that people will not have one consistent belief system that reflects a dogmatic stance that is completely coherent and consistent. But quite often people will hold beliefs that are, to a certain degree – even in contradiction with others. But then perhaps, but for them, they are not contradictory – they are just applied to different things and that’s where the idea of situational beliefs comes in. That, and the idea here is that, depending on the situation, a person may believe in something or in something else. So depending on the situation a person may believe in eternal life and/or in reincarnation, depending on the situation. The person, for example, one example that he gave is that they conducted research on people, I think on college students, and it was about how many of them believed in astrology. I don’t think it was Stringer, actually, it was another scholar who conducted this experiment and those who clearly stated that they believed in astrology were like below the 30 percent and then when the following question was, “have you ever checked whether you and your partner are compatible based on your astrological signs or astrological charts” and a large majority said yes. So do we consider this a contradiction? Stringer would argue that these are not quite contradictions but these are situational beliefs that depending on [the] situation people will react differently and they will believe different things which to them are completely consistent. And as scholars as you know I always say that as scholars we do not judge what people believe and what people do, we try to investigate it, to understand it so that we can understand better the phenomenon and we can better understand ourselves.

So what he says in this passage towards the situational theory of belief (here he’s quoting another scholar) and he says, “Robertson Smith argued that what people say about their rituals should be secondary to what is actually done. Beliefs, he claimed, change over time and are often created ‘post hoc’,” (Post hoc here means that beliefs are created after the practice, as a result of the practice) “whereas the ritual generally remains static. This has led anthropologists to give most of their attention to what is done during ritual rather than to what people say about it. There has, it is true, always been a strong interest in ‘myth’ within anthropology but this is not real ‘belief’ even if for many commentators myth appears to imply some kind of belief. The debate that has been generated about the relationship between myth and ritual has tended, on the whole, to ignore the possible position of belief between these separate forms.”

So here Stringer is saying that belief, after all, when we analyse religious practices it appears to anthropologists that the practice comes first and the belief comes after as a result of the practice and as a result of the results of the practice. If we talk about magick, because here, what we can conclude, is that, in the case of magic and magic practices, you may well know that for magic practitioners experience is key and so experience here outweighs – not only outweighs but even precedes – both belief and theoretical understanding of what constitutes a fact. This appears particularly the case with magick practitioners who do report changes occurring as a result of their practices. This perception is also reinforced by peers belonging to the same group that, as we said, you have those two main aspects the conformity, which here is a reinforcement by your peers, because otherwise, the person would just think that they are delusional. But then they have a reinforcement from their peers and as a consequence, this corroborates their experience.

But here to conclude and to try and answer the question that we set to begin with: how come people believe in magic even if the theoretical framework, the worldview [that] practitioners [are] living opposes the fact that magic is real or is factual? And the answer is that because magick practitioners have experiences that are in line with what magick says and so for magic practitioners experience is more valuable and as a consequence they will create a belief system that derives from their experiences – rather than negate their experiences just for the sake of abiding by a certain theoretical framework.

This is what I wanted to say and I will add the reference list in the info box but I also put them on the screen while I was talking.

Now here I am. Let me know if it was clear. First of all I hope it wasn’t too boring.

So let me see if there are any questions. I saw your question James. I also said hi before. Yeah, hopefully my volume is now better.

So let me see if there are any questions.

Oh hi Jazz. I saw that you were there in the chat and hi Cipriano.

So let me see, okay, Inquisitor Vex questions: are there any correlations between belief in magic and particular psychological traits? That’s a good question. I don’t think I have an answer to that because I’m not a psychologist. I don’t do research in psychology but it would be interesting to know, I mean to investigate it academically. Unfortunately I don’t have an answer to that

So bodyandmask asks: do you think that there is a difference in the degree to which practice proceeds belief in magic versus a religion with a more standardized, robust mythic tradition?

That’s a very good question. Well as I mentioned Martin Stranger actually studied Christians and I think, that especially nowadays, it is becoming … perhaps in the past you used to have more of, you know, when you have living religious practitioners it would seem to be the case that those, who have a dogmatic structure, would be more keen on following those rules and in some cases it still happens but also you do find a lot of cases where even Christians (which is the only example I know – I don’t really know about the other monotheistic religions) but in Christianity that definitely happens. I can see that, even in my country with Catholicism. Catholicism is definitely a very structured religion and dogmatic and has, you know, a central essential structure. But even in that case you will find that people will define themselves as Catholics but then they do not believe in confession or they do not do other things – in some cases they even challenge very core elements of the Christian faith and they still strongly believe and they will argue very strongly they are Catholics. So in that case, as a scholar, the only thing that we can do is try to understand the phenomenon and how come people will identify with a certain religion even when they are not particularly following the criteria that that religion has set for said religion. Of course it is much more obvious in religions like paganism and witchcraft where you don’t have a set of rules or a set of principles to follow. But I think that this comes down to the difference between lived religions and institutionalized religions. And even if the person follows an institutionalized religion when the religion is lived will still change and will still be completely affected by certain dynamics which are the ones that I mentioned earlier.

So let me see if there are other questions.

Astrogypsy asks about Jenny Butler’s book.

I don’t think it got published yet but hopefully it will be soon because I’m also looking forward to that.

So James, Hi James. James Vitale is asking a question: could a practitioner who uses a magical ritual and develops a belief in magic afterwards be considered to have conducted an experiment?

Do you mean like a scientific experiment? I think that magic has quite often, not in all cases, I would say, like for example with folk witchcraft that does not quite appear to be the case nor does it with shamanism but especially more ceremonial forms of magic have tended to resemble, in a way the concept of a scientific experiment. I wouldn’t say that they are indeed scientific experiments because there are also differences but especially in the pre-assumptions that the magician makes. But you do have that sense that the magician wants to identify certain patterns as well. So whether, when they practice on a full moon, is more effective or quicker whether if they practice with fire magic, whether it’s quicker than when they practice with earth magic and these kind of things. So usually practitioners of magic tend to be very experiential and they want to experiment and learn from these experiences.

So James Roland. Hi James I’m also happy that you joined Memberships and the Inner Symposium so welcome to the Inner Symposium once again: Would you say this would be a reason why distance magicians are still able to raise energy and work together for overall greater results?

Well I’m not sure I understand your question James. Would you say this would be a reason. Which one would be the reason? What do you mean by this.?

Then Andrew … let me know James and I will get back to you. Andrew is asking: is it possible that magickal practice has beneficial effects for the practitioner on a psychological level as well as magickal changes to the world i.e. Ritual is beneficial in itself?

Yeah, Andrew. Actually you raise an important point which I didn’t touch on even though I planned on doing on doing so. And that is when that when I talk about the effectiveness of magic and the fact that practitioners find it to work in a way and so that’s why they believe in it. I not necessarily and not only mean that it works in terms of they believe that the magical practice works in changing reality but also that performing magical rituals and magical practices is also beneficial to them and that can be on several levels. On the physical level, on psychological level it can be a tool of empowerment. It definitely is, for example, we see a rise in forms of feminist witchcraft and so not only in that case but even in other cases like, for example, in Italy there’s also the Minoan brotherhood, which is based on male mysteries. And so it can be a tool of empowerment on many levels. Not just the effectiveness here, when I was mentioning effectiveness and the perception of effectiveness practitioners have I was speaking in broad terms so I was also including these these components absolutely.

So 234picapica is asking: in Psi-studies and parapsychology they tried double-blind scientific experiments (eg mind reading). I there something similar for magic?

I don’t think so, no not to my knowledge. There isn’t really and usually experiments have been rather [to] try to disprove the fact that magick has the changes that practitioners say they have. But I know that mostly in para-psychology for para-anthropology and in the study of psy-phenomena they tend to do this kind of research but most of them are rejected by the academic community.

So Ryan is asking: did you hear about the UFO connection to the book of Enoch and how the angels are really aliens and it kinda turns all religion upside down and hi Angela?

Hi Ryan. No I haven’t heard of it.

Jason is asking: Hi Dr. P. Has any research shown to what extent a chosen or given spiritual or religious belief is seen as a form of personal identity and if you have one, what’s your take?

What’s my take on to what extent the chosen or given spiritual religious belief is seen as a form of personal identity? I don’t recall, off top of my head, research or scholarship on the matter but in terms of what I think, I think that religion and spirituality and well, the difference between the two would be a completely different talk I guess. An entire talk but, yeah, I think that they are very important when it comes to the identity of a person and, even people who are atheists, that is still a way of answering the question about the metaphysical realm and the deity and god in a way. So you still have the question – and then you answer no. But the question is still there. So I think that it is a key component, a key trait for an individual whether or not they have a religious practice or religious beliefs or spiritual practices or spiritual beliefs and of course it depends on the individual how much that weighs on their overall sense of identity. But for some people it is quite central to their lives and so that’s important to respect and acknowledge I think.

So Andy the Dishwasher is asking: do you feel that economic factors influence whether local religious movements focus more on established dogma or experiential goals?

I don’t know. I mean economic factors – it’s like our society is comprised of many different areas and economics is definitely one of them. Of course how much it weighs, it depends on the situation on the person and on the specific instance. But I don’t think that there is an economic factor that is so prevalent when it comes to whether religious movements focus on the established dogma on experiential goals. No I don’t think so I was thinking about it.

Let me see if there are other questions.

So James Roland: I meant a group of like-minded magicians following the same correspondences, having the same experiences due to the use of the same psychological symbolisms.

Well I guess your question is more about the effectiveness of the magical practice rather than whether if I understand it, I’ve understood your question. It is more about the effectiveness of the magical practice rather than how factual magic practitioners think that magic is and the magical practice is … I’m rereading the question to see whether I missed something James

Andrew is asking; keeping a journal would be good scientific practice with experimentations and failure parameters …

James Roundly says I’m having a hard time fitting my question…

That’s fine James. You can ask in the Inner Symposium. It may spark a discussion with the others as well. Yeah because I definitely want to to dive deeper into that and understand better what you mean.

Andy says: maybe I ought to have asked how those economic factors might play in. I’ve noticed some interesting patterns in my own observations and I hoped I might find some collaboration in the research.

I guess you should be more specific than and if you have specific references or research that you’re referring to it might help to – how those economic factors might play in. Economic factors play a role in human behaviour but to to to what degree? To what extent? And in in which direction? It really depends on a lot of factors and many elements that depend on the context.

James Vitale says: experimentation is a large part of my belief system of course I don’t think many of my conclusions are beliefs per se but reality. I’m sure someone would refute my conclusion, however.

Well I don’t think that beliefs can be disproven. So beliefs can be understood but I don’t think that beliefs are meant to be proven but in fact I think that there is something called “scientism”. So often people confuse science and scientism and I mention this a lot just because I think it is essential for us to understand the difference. Because science studies the natural world and the social world and there are different methodologies for the different areas of human endeavour and the natural world but there are aspects of the human experience that are not meant to be answered by especially natural science. And now with the positivist mindset that we have acquired, the idea after the enlightenment and during the 19^th & 20^th century this idea that for something to be real it needs to be proven by scientific methodology. But that is not what science will is meant to do. Science is not meant to answer questions such as: is there a god? Does the soul exist? And these kind of things. What is after death? And I know that there are experiments that try to answer these questions but I would strongly argue that the methodology of science the scientific methodology is not apt to answer those questions but a different set of questions. And each area should be investigated with the proper methodology.

Oh yeah, I know that that you were responding to somebody else James. I just entered the conversation I guess.

Andy the Dishwasher says: primarily I’ve noticed less economically advantaged communities tend to have greater urgency in their spiritual needs and thus tend to more strongly demand gnosis, in a word, from the religions.

Oh I guess now I see what you mean. It is more about the fact that marginalized people in society. That happens in terms of economical disadvantage but also other forms of disadvantage. There tends to be more of an interest towards spiritual practices. That seems to be the case. Of course I cannot generalize and we should, you know, if we want to be accurate and academic we should always contextualize things and see what country are we talking about what specific region and what is the religion that we are trying to tackle and investigate.

Yeah, shout out to Academic Police that is always [Laughter] very beneficial to the community and to the chat.

So did you guys find the talk clear and interesting. I’d like to also have a feedback from you. If you think I’m speaking too much in “academicese”, so to speak, let me know or if you found it interesting and clear to understand – I’d also like to know.

Astrogypsy says: I can’t remember the source, possibly Hutton, but I think there is a relationship between desperation and magical practice in the Orthodox communities.

I don’t know if Hutton mentions that but I am familiar with the works of Ernesto de Martino, who is an Italian anthropologist and ethnographer and he says that magic solves the crisis of presence. Which means that there are cases where the individual does not feel their agency any more. The individual feels like they are becoming a world ego and so magic has the ability to reaffirm that crisis of presence and re-settle the individual in them as an agent rather than a pure ego of the world and so I guess that in today’s language and in English we would say empowerment in a way. I don’t want to oversimplify de Martino though but I think that there are parallels there.

So, James says everything was great, easily understood and concise. Thank you.

So, Jason is asking: has it been noted in academic studies whether or not belief/non-belief has an effect on

decision-making processes particularly among occultists.

There isn’t many studies yet on that but as I mentioned from Stranger now there is the… well you do have different scholars that will argue for different things when it comes to this I would think. I tend to think that when it comes to occultists and esotericists, those who practice esotericism, I think that they tend to value more their experience and so their beliefs are tailored upon their experience and they are engaged upon what happens as a result of their practice. I think that in magick, you know, the craft – that’s why it’s called like that or the work – is what counts, what is most central.

Oh thank you Brave New World films. Thank you for your donation: I am new to most of these topics having been raised in a strict religious background. What advice would you have for entry-level or what literature would you recommend? Peace and blessings from Vegas.

Oh wow Vegas. I’d love to visit. So what advice would I give to entry-level literature. So it depends Brave New World. What what are you interested in. Is it paganism or is it witchcraft? Or is it the practice of magic or alchemy? It really depends on what you are most interested in. If you’re interested in paganism and witchcraft I would definitely recommend the works by Professor Ronald Hutton, who has done a lot of work especially in the “Triumph of the Moon” he talks about pagan witchcraft more specifically and even more specifically in the British Isles but yeah if you let me know what it is that you’re most interested in, I can leave you a few book recommendations even if you leave you know leave the request in the comment section I will get back to you with a few references.

Oh hi Fernando, Fernando Tirado. I hope I pronounced it right. Thank you very much for your donation. Hola! Your question: is there a correlation between non-conformity and the practice of any magickal path? Also, is the practice of magic among the public a response to growing stressors and social inequalities?

That’s a good question. So, I think that yes, there is a correlation between non-conformity and the practice of magic, as I mentioned in the talk, magic has always been… it’s like if you want to find one cultural element that has always been against the mainstream or the dominant system – it’s always magick. Magick has always, always been a contested… in fact in Hanegraaff and other scholars from the University of Amsterdam. (Oh by the way Brand New World Films Hanegraaff would be a great one if you’re interested in Western esotericism. I was just recalling that.) So yeah, as I was saying, Hanegraaff and other scholars call esotericism and the practice of magic rejected knowledge. Rejected knowledge because sometimes they feel like it’s too difficult to find one term, for instance there are some scholars that would reject the term magic, as Ronald Hutton mentioned in his interview, but I agree with Hutton in saying that I think the term of magic is still valuable and shouldn’t be discarded from the academic conversation. So yeah, there is a correlation between non-conformity and the practice of [a] magical path. In fact it’s been defined as ‘rejected knowledge’ and is the practice of magic among the public response to growing stressors and social inequalities? I think that in a lot of cases the magic has been a response to that. As I said this is another characteristic of magic that seems to be practised by those at the margins. I have a video on that. If you haven’t watched it I would recommend it to you. Fernando I think you might like it.

Oh thank you Jeanette, Jeanette Waverly: Merry Meet from the Witches of Kern County, California!

Oh wow. You’re all from very nice places. Yeah if the if the pandemic was not going on. Usually I travel a lot around the world both for field work and for conferences but obviously that has not happened for a couple of years now. But yeah, it was very nice of you, Jeanette and thank you for your donation.

And I see that Brand New World is exchanging beers with with Academic Police. That’s nice.

So yeah, I guess that hopefully I have answered all of your questions guys. I hope that you enjoyed this live-stream lecture and please let me know in the comments if there is anything that I haven’t answered. Leave it in the comment section as you know I always reply to your to your comments and also if there are any other questions that… Fernando is asking can you share the link for the video you mentioned. Yeah I cannot share it here because I’m using a software to live stream but if you leave me a comment when the video is over, I will direct you to that.

So thank you very much to all of you for being here and definitely let me know in the comments if you liked this live stream lecture. If everything was clear, if you think that I can improve on something in the in the next ones. I don’t know. Just leave me your comments and your feedbacks. I always enjoy to read them. They cheer me up on sad days. So, and for those of you who are watching live and those who are going to watch it later …

If you like this video, as always smash the like button, subscribe to the channel, activate the notification bell so that you will not miss new videos from me – because you know that YouTube don’t always notify us about new uploads from your subscriptions. And as always stay tuned for all the academic fun. And thank you so so much for helping me reach the 20 000 subscribers. Every kind of support from you guys is very much appreciated and yeah thank you so much for being here. Stay tuned for all the academic fun!

Bye for now.

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REFERENCES

O’Connor, C. and Weatherall, J. O. (2018) ‘Scientific polarization’, European Journal for Philosophy of Science, vol. 8, no. 3, pp. 855–875 [Online]. DOI: 10.1007/s13194-018-0213-9.

Stringer, M. D. (1996) ‘Towards a situational theory of belief’, Journal of the Anthropological Society of Oxford, vol. 27, no. 3, pp. 217–234. Stringer, M. D. (2008) Contemporary Western Ethnography and the Definition of Religion, Continuum.

Weatherall, J. O. and O’Connor, C. (2020) ‘How to beat science and influence people: policymakers and propaganda in epistemic networks’, The British Journal for the Philosophy of Science, vol. 71, pp. 1157–1186.