Hello everyone. I’m Dr Angela Puca, and welcome to the Live Stream Symposium. I’m a PhD and a Religious Studies Scholar, and this is your online resource, now live, for the academic study of Magick, Esotericism, Witchcraft, Shamanism and all things occult.
So, let me see who is in the chat. I was already telling people I no longer remember how to speak English. I know I speak English, well that’s a lie. I can still speak English even if I’m in Italy.
So hi. First of all, thank you, Academic Police and Andrew, for moderating the chat. And hi to Andrew, Edward, Hank, my Patrons. Thank you so much for being in the chat, and hi, Sheri LaFay, Robert, and Gematria 32. Hi everybody, it’s nice to see you all here for the Live Stream. I hope it wasn’t too, well it wasn’t impromptu, but I didn’t give you much notice because everything is a bit more difficult when I’m over here. Now, I’m at a friend’s house to do the livestream because the place I usually stay at doesn’t have a very good internet connection. So, I wouldn’t have been able to do the livestream. At first, I thought I would try, but then I realized it could not even hold up for a video call. So, it would have been a failed attempt. So I just decided to come here and ask for political exile, exile? See, I cannot speak English anymore. So yeah, nice to see everybody.

You may have noticed from my Instagram that I’ve been in Tuscany for the past week. I went to see a couple of friends and stayed. Exile, thank you, Ray. So yeah, and I stayed with my best friend in Arezzo. So it was nice to spend time with him, and my Patrons know him because he gave a Magus Lecture a couple of months ago on the Tarot, on the Rider Wait Smith Tarot Deck. So yeah, it was nice, and even though it was quite warm in Tuscany, it wasn’t as unbearable as it is in the south. I think that, in the south, it’s, you know, the heat is much less bearable.

So yeah. So, do you guys have any questions for me? So let me know if you have any questions.

It is better to write QUESTION in caps lock and then your question to make it more visible to me. And I do realise, when I rewatch my Live Streams, that I tend to always skip on certain questions, on some questions. Not, and I swear I don’t do it on purpose. So, if you want to make sure that your question is asked, the best way is to Superchat your question; that way, you will also support my work, making it so visible that I can’t miss it. So let me know whether there are any questions. Also, I was in Ireland last month for two conferences and got to meet Dr Justin Sledge from Esoterica. That was nice, and it was a surprise. So that was a lovely meeting as well. Let me see if there are questions now.

So Gothik Extravaganza. Predicated upon some last-minute art, what is your opinion on phantoms?
Could you be a bit more specific? I’m not sure what you mean, to be fair.

So Nirodha Avidya, where has there been innovation in the Western Esoteric Tradition since Chaos Magick?

That’s a good question, and I’m assuming you like Indian traditions because of your nickname or name. So, the innovation in Western Esoteric Tradition since Chaos Magick. That’s a good question. Chaos Magick was an innovation in terms of applying, perhaps to the extreme, certain elements and certain traits that you find even in Aleister Crowley’s thought. For instance, you know that the magician’s will is central and that every man and every woman is a star. Other elements in the Thelemic tradition prepared the ground for a more individualistic approach. But it wasn’t just Crowley. I think that the whole, you know, the whole history of Western Esotericism in the 20th century, in the 19th, 20th century prepared the ground for a more individualistic approach that gets to, perhaps, some would argue an extreme with Chaos Magick, where you would use correspondences, as they do also in ceremonial Magick traditions for their magical operations but you can have personalised, in a way, correspondences. So, it’s not about abiding by fixed tables of correspondence that have been used for centuries. But it’s more about what resonates with you. So, for instance, if for you, yellow resonates with how you perceive the element water, it doesn’t matter that in other traditions, it is associated with the colour blue, and you would use yellow. So you have this very personalised element.

But I think other than Chaos Magick, in terms of innovation, you have many, many things. How can I pinpoint one? Maybe transcultural Shamanism. Transcultural Shamanism was also quite an innovation. For instance, Michael Harner – that’s from the 1980s. So it’s not that much later compared to Chaos Magick. Shamanism has become more prevalent and influential in Western esoteric traditions. So I would say that Shamanism, especially transcultural Shamanism since we’re talking about the West. However, I’ve argued in my PhD that you can have indigenous Shamanism even in the West. But I would say that Shamanism has been an innovation, and the latest development of Pagan Witchcraft has also been quite an innovation. The Left-Hand Path and how the perception of it has evolved in the last few decades has also been quite an innovation. So I hope that answers your question.

Let me see if there are other questions.

So, in your first video about Hecate, you said she was a Goddess of Crossroads. In your second video, there is no such mention. Why do you suppose she was let go from said calling?
My second video on Hecate was a contemporary reinterpretation of Hecate. I delivered that paper at the Conference of the European Association for the Study of Religions. So it was very specific about reinterpretations of Hecate on social media, more specifically, but yeah, I thought that I had mentioned the crossroads, especially the three-way crossroads. So, if I haven’t, I think that’s something I missed in that video. But yeah, even in the contemporary world, contemporary practitioners still associate Hecate with crossroads, specifically the three-way crossroads, if that’s the correct term.

So Witness says is there a High Priestess?

In general? In life? What do you mean? Well, there are High Priestesses in Wicca, for instance, in the Wicca tradition and in traditional Wicca you have High Priests and High Priestesses. But yeah, you can have High Priestesses in many traditions, really. So I’m not sure what you what you’re asking. I think it’s always good if you guys are specific in your questions. So that I can manage to understand exactly what you want to know.

Oops, sorry.

So Astro is asking, do you know astrologers who are astronomers and how they resolve the differences between traditional versus actual positions of celestial bodies?

I don’t think that I know astrologers who are also astronomers. That’s a good question. So, let me think about conversations I’ve had on my fieldwork about how they resolve the conflict. I think that that can be applied to other kinds of conflicts. In some cases, you would have that magical practice conflict, in a way, with some of the discoveries and studies that you find in natural science. I think that the way… let me think, I’m thinking about Giordano Bruno now for some reason. In Giordano Bruno, you have the concept that planets are also deities. So, the divine power you find in celestial bodies is not strictly dependent on the actual position in the sky. So I would imagine, I’m speculating here because I don’t know what kind of argument astronomers, who are also astrologers, would give, but I’m speculating that they might say that is not necessarily important, in terms of correspondences, whether the planet is in a specific place because it’s more about the correspondences. It is more about the vibration of that celestial body, especially when it is associated with a divinity or a deity. Like in some cases, you have, in some traditions, that celestial bodies are perceived as deities. So I would say that in that sense, perhaps the position in and of itself could be seen as less important, but I’m speculating here.
Let me see if there are other questions.

I would enjoy more Goetia. Where would you recommend more detailed information?

Well, maybe you have already watched my video on the Goetia because I have one on the YouTube channel. More detailed information. I think there are plenty of books on the Goetia. Have you read anything specifically, and would you like to expand more on that? Also, I think it depends on whether you are interested in studying Goetia from an academic point of view or whether you want to read instruction manuals if you are a practitioner and want to work with Goetia. As an academic in the field, I tend to focus more on academic studies, and unfortunately, there isn’t much on the Goetia, you know, itself, which is a pity because it’s quite influential for Magick practitioners. So, who knows? Maybe something is going to come up in the scholarship, or maybe I will do some study on the matter. It would definitely be interesting.

Ray is asking, in your opinion, what the importance of material and physical devices in Magick is.
Again, I find the question a bit confusing; I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking here. Whether physicality is important in magical practices or by physical devices, maybe you mean magical tools. I’m not sure I’m understanding the question right. Still, if I understand it and the way I’ve just explained, I would say that physicality, you know, of itself is important for, I’d say, most Magick practitioners, but the role that physicality and the physical world plays massively depends on the belief system of the practitioner because you have Magick practitioners belonging to all sorts of religions. You know, Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Paganism. As you guys may know, I specialize more in Paganism, Pagan Witchcraft, Shamanism and contemporary esoteric practices that tend to be more polytheistic rather than monotheistic.

So in the latter case, since that’s what I specialize in and it’s also what I know best, the material world plays an important role because in Pagan Witchcraft, in Paganism there is an imminent view of the divine, which means that the divine is imbued in the physical world. I made a TikTok lately about it, and I was under the rain, unbothered by the rain, enjoying it and explaining it exactly. In a pagan belief system, pagans usually believe that the physical world is imbued with the divine. So you have certain religious traditions with that kind of gnostic perception, this kind of dualistic perception that you have the physical and spiritual worlds to ascend or transcend. So, there’s the perception of transcendence. So, transcending the physical body, the mundane state of existence, to something higher. So there’s this perception that you have to go higher than the matter, than the gross matter. So here you see a dualism between the spiritual world and the material world where the material world, in a way, keeps you separate from the spiritual world.

In some cases, in a lot of cases, it hinders your spiritual path. In Paganism, you have that reverse, and even in Tantric traditions. So you have the idea that the, you know, everything that is, that belongs to the physical world and the senses and even the sensual pleasures, all these things actually can get you more attuned to the divine, closer to divine and can be, you know, an integral part of the spiritual experience. So you don’t have any more the…

Oh, thank you for the donation, Hank.

So you don’t perceive that the physicality keeps you away from it. Whether or not the magical tools are important depends on the tradition because, in Ceremonial Magick Traditions, magical tools are extremely important and tend to be more eclectic in other traditions. They are less involved with ritualism or have a more loose, eclectic, individualised way of entertaining ritual practices. In those cases, you have that, you know, magical tools are considered to be an addition, but they are not essential. In other traditions, more of the ceremonial kind, they tend to be considered as more essential. So it depends on the tradition and belief system. I tend to give long answers.

Let me see if there are other questions and thank you again, Hank, for the donation.

So let me see if there are other questions.

Hello Dr Puca, did you watch Dr Andrew Mark Henry’s celebration stream on Wednesday?

Yeah, Andrew and I are collaborating in, I think, in late September, if everything goes right, on the evil eye, and he will address the history, you know, the history of the evil eye, and I will address the evil eye in more modern magical practices. So yeah, we are collaborating. I’m grateful to Andrew because it is thanks to him that my channel. I see that the first collaboration he and It launched my channel. He started much earlier than I did, and he’s extremely successful at what he does. And I envy his, in a good way, not bad, but he’s great. You know his videos are amazing, not just in terms of the content but also the editing. I hope to learn how to improve my videos, and I want to learn how to make animations. I want to improve my videos in the next few months. I’m planning on learning new skills so that I can employ them to make better videos. But yeah, I admire his content, and I’m grateful because he really helped me when my channel was a newborn project. So he’s been great, and it will be amazing to collaborate again. I’m really happy he reached half a million; it’s deserved.

Oh, Humane Ventures says, hello Dr Puca. I love your videos.

Thank you so much and thanks for being a member of this channel, it helps my project.

Sheri LaFey says, have you written a book? If not, please do.
Thank you for increasing my anxiety. I’m kidding; I’m about to hand in my first book. Well, I should do it by the end of September, but I’m working on it. So, at the moment, it’s like a bit of a source of anxiety for me because I have to work on it, and I’m very nervous that I might not do it right, but yeah, that will be my first book. I’m discussing with my Patrons what the title will be because I haven’t fully decided. I have a provisional title, but I don’t have a definite title. So it would be nice to discuss this more with my Patrons. If you’re interested, you might also join my Patreon community because we have a lot of academic fun together. But yeah, there will be a book from me, hopefully, next year or so. But yeah, I will work on the first draft to send next month. And it will be my PhD dissertation turned into a book. So it will be on Italian Witchcraft and the indigenous Italian Shamanism and transcultural Shamanism in Italy. The title of my PhD is indigenous and transcultural Shamanism in Italy. But I don’t think I want to call my book like that because I don’t think it’s a very attractive title. It’s more of a PhD title, so yeah, I’m trying to find a title that can convey what the book talks about, and it’s more appealing, you know. But thank you for looking forward to my first book. That’s nice to hear – it motivates me to keep working on it.

So Hola Angela, Could Giordano Bruno’s “Memoria” be viewed or developed as a kind of Western Tantra?

What aspect specifically of his works on memory? I am familiar with his works on memory, but I’m unsure which aspects you’re referring to. Since you’re mentioning Western Tantra, could you please follow up with them with more specifics on what aspects of his works and memory you were thinking about connecting, integrating, or being a development for those who practice Western Tantra? I’m interested. The Western Tantra came much later than Giordano Bruno. So, yeah, give me specifics, and maybe I will be able to answer.

So, let me see if there are other questions.

João is another Patron of mine, and he says it is not an actual question but a title suggestion: How I Learned to Love Pineapple in Pizza.

I do not, and you know that my Italian citizenship would be revoked if I ever ate pineapple on pizza. I just refused to do that. As an Italian, I think that that’s – that’s a no-no. Or maybe I could do that as a tantric practice because, as you guys know, many people associate tantric practices with sex, and there is that element, too, but it’s a small part of Tantric practices. Tantra is all about entertaining and engaging with forbidden or taboo practices. So that you can pursue spiritual development, a spiritual kind of enlightenment, perhaps eating pineapple on pizza could indeed be a Tantric practice. I’m not sure I’m willing to, but we will see.

So let me see if there are other questions.

Oh no, you’re saying Brill, so I will you will have to sell a kidney.

Yeah, my book should come out with Brill; I apologize about that, but you know, when you’re an academic, and you decide, you know, what kind of publisher you publish with, it’s more a matter of entering the academic, scholarly debate. So yeah, I’m not happy that my book will be expensive, but it’s, yeah, well, you know, maybe there will be other ways of getting a hold of it.

So, let me see if there are other questions. Oh yes, there is a question here.

So, what are your thoughts on Raven Grimassi’s take on Italian Witchcraft?

Oh, you will want me to get angry. Have you watched my video on Stregheria? So Zen, Angela Zen. Then so, my take on Grimassi’s Italian Witchcraft is that it is not Italian Witchcraft. So, I mean not disrespecting those who find value in his work. So, suppose you are a practitioner of Stregheria, which is not even an Italian word. In that case, I always think one thing that Anthropology Research Anthropology taught me is the deep respect for people’s beliefs. Because I understand that what people believe and their spiritual practice is integral to how they live in their world, worldview, and well-being. So I highly respect you if you believe that which has enriched your life. That said, talking about, you know, the historical elements and the elements of accuracy in what Grimassi says since he claimed that what he was talking about was Italian Witchcraft. That isn’t, you know, is not true. I don’t know how else to say it; it’s not Italian Witchcraft.

What he talks about is eclectic Wicca with an Italian flavour. But you know if it helps Italian-Americans to reconnect with their heritage. I understand that could be of value to you, but there is no Italian Witchcraft in Grimassi’s work. I personally also have a problem with him because I was present in discussions between Grimassi and Italian Witches, actual Italian Witches; he was trying to switch plain; how else to put it? Still, he was trying to explain to Italians, you know, what Italian Witchcraft was about – actual Italians. Those who were born and raised in Italy knew Italian, which he did not know. So yeah, my take on Grimassi transpires, but if you want to know more, please watch my video. But again, I mean no disrespect to those who practice it and find value in it. I think that that’s a different matter.

Astro is asking if you had the chance to collaborate with Dr Butler in Ireland and if there is a video coming.
I’d love to collaborate with Jenny again, Dr Jenny Butler; I call her Jenny because we’re friends. But yeah, it was nice seeing Jenny. We sat next to each other at the gala dinner for the Conference of the European Society for the Study of Western Esotericism. She was organizing both the European Association for the Study of Religion Conference and the ESSWE Conference, so she was quite busy. She got slightly more relaxed in the last couple of days because it was about to end. But no, we didn’t have the chance to film an interview because she was busy, but I’d love to do something else with her. She’s an amazing scholar and a fantastic person. So, on every occasion, I collaborate with her, I will be more than happy to. So no video upcoming, but hopefully, in the future, if you have ideas about what you’d like us to talk about, let me know as well. And Astro, I know you’re a Patron so that we can discuss that in our next calls.

Hank says what about Pineapple Spaghetti Carbonara?

Well, I think that would be, you know, that’s a Stregheria kind of dish. Let’s define it that way.

Pineapple on pizza is ancient practice. I know you guys are all trying to convert me to pineapple pizza. Andrew is, all he has been trying to do that for a long, long time. We will see if you break me.

Could there be a kindle version that is more affordable?

I hope so. I hope that there will be a more affordable version. I will work on having a more affordable option.

So let me see if there are other questions.

Oh, I just coined the word. Yes, what was it Italian explaining? Or, no witchsplaining that was the term?

Let me see if there are other questions.

So, this was meant for last month’s Q&A. Iphigenia got caught in my swiping texts earlier, and I found out later it is of Greek mythos. Mythos is ancient Greek. Do you then know her Roman equivalent, if even she has one?
No, I don’t think she has unless I’m… I can’t remember, but I don’t think she has.

Let me see if there are other questions from you guys.

Did he even Witchsplain in Italian? Of course not. Of course not.

Yeah, I’m sorry that I’m overlapping. I can see that there are people saying that I’m overlapping with MythVision. I didn’t know that he had, Derek also had the Live Stream but it’s fine, you know if you want to leave and join that one. I understand. I’m just doing the Live Stream at this time because that’s the time I can do it but I didn’t mean to overlap with him.

Elijah asks when and where the magical tradition originated in Italy. Was there a certain book that was the focus in the early days?
No, there wasn’t a specific book that was the focus. That’s the characteristic of, I’m assuming that we are talking about, Italian Witchcraft and Italian Witchcraft… Well, first of all, up until my PhD, it wasn’t even systematised as one tradition. So you couldn’t talk about Italian Witchcraft because what you had was a set of vernacular, regional traditions. These folk Magick traditions were practised in different regions of the country, but they weren’t seen as one unitarian Italian witchcraft tradition. So that wasn’t there. So, the first scholar who coined a term that systematised the different forms of Italian Witchcraft as one form of Italian Witchcraft was me, and that was my PhD. So it’s not; it’s something quite recent. But in terms of the practices, of course, the practices are quite old. Still, it’s difficult to tell the exact origin because as many traditions, as many folk Magick traditions, have evolved, and it’s difficult to find an origin. I’d like to study Paracelsus’ doctrine of signatures because if you have followed my channel, you know that the Italian Witchcraft that I systematised, I systematised under the label of the tradition of Segnature because that’s the thing that unites all of the regional variations, the practice of the Segnature. And I find it remarkable that you have something similar with Paracelsus, at least in sound. So I have wondered whether there is some kind of historical connection, but it’s quite difficult to trace it back. Because we don’t have much documentation and Leland doesn’t count as a historical account, we don’t have much in terms of historical records. So that makes it difficult, but I would need to do proper research to tell you how far back he goes. Contemporary Italian Witchcraft, which I studied for my PhD, goes back at least 100 to 200 years. But, further back, it’s difficult to say because I don’t have the data to say anything about it. I hope that answers your question.

Oh, Humane Ventures, what resources would you recommend to study authentic Italian Witchcraft?

Good question. So, as I said, the first scholar to study Italian Witchcraft in a systematised way is me for my PhD. So when my book comes out, that will clarify things. However, I have a publication on the tradition of Segnature that is free to access, so it’s open source – I love open source. But unfortunately, you cannot always do that. But yeah, if you look up my video on Italian Witchcraft and the Tradition of Segnature, I have a video on that. You will find that in the info box, I have listed a number of sources, and those are the only sources in English that you will find on the matter.

There are other sources in Italian, so if you know Italian, you can access other sources. But some of them are not even academic sources; they are primary sources, so in academia, we distinguish between primary and secondary sources. The primary sources are things written by either the author if you’re studying, I don’t know, for instance, Nietzsche would be Nietzsche’s works. Secondary sources are the academic accounts of a specific philosopher or tradition. So, the academic works are secondary sources because they are academic studies on the phenomenon. The primary sources are sources made by practitioners. There are some primary sources in Italian, and there was an interesting book that I found to be important in my PhD, which is called “Lo Sciamanesimo in Sardegna,” which is Shamanism in Sardinia and a scholar, an academic, did not write it. Still, she is an ethnographer unrelated to any institution, and I think her work was really good, even though it was not peer-reviewed. But I was allowed to use it anyway because it was an accurate representation, and there wasn’t anything. So yeah, the few things that are there, you will find them in the info box in my video on Italian Witchcraft. And other than that, I hope you will be patient and wait for my book to come out.

Thank you, Nirodha, for your donation. So, based on your conversation with Dr Sledge, I assume you are an idealist. If so, have you always been? 

Why? Does academia challenge this due to its requisite empiricism?

I’m not an idealist. What makes you think that I’m an idealist? I am an idealist in the common sense of the term, perhaps, but not in philosophical terms. Idealism is the philosophy that usually thinks that everything comes from consciousness, so that the world is all a projection of our consciousness or that, in a way, consciousness comes first, and the manifested world comes after. I wouldn’t say that I’m an idealist at all. I value very much the physicality and the empirical perception. So my Patrons know that because we have lengthy philosophical conversations, they know that I have sometimes described myself as an Active Nihilist, which means that I don’t believe that anything is real in and of itself. It doesn’t mean that nothing exists; it’s more. That’s why it is active nihilism. I think it needs to be inspired by Nietzsche and a bit inspired by Buddhism and the Buddhist concept of no self. I have a video on that if you’re interested in a deeper dive into this concept. So, for me, active nihilism means that I cannot say anything that is ontologically real. But I postulate the existence of things based on my perception of them. So perhaps there is also a bit of phenomenology in that. So, if anything, I’m more of a phenomenologist – plus nihilist, I guess, a mixture of things. But no, I’m not an idealist. But I’m curious about what made you think I’m an idealist. Maybe because of the contrast with how much of a materialist Justin is. I’m not sure; maybe, by contrast, it appeared as though I was an idealist. But let me know; I’m curious: what made you think that I’m an idealist?

So Flaviu is asking, is there any overlap or other relationship between contemporary Italian Witchcraft and Roma Witchcraft?

Do you mean the Witchcraft of ancient Rome or the Witchcraft, the Folk Magic practices of Romania? I’m not sure which of the two you mean. If it is the Roman or the ancient Roman religion, I would say there is very little influence, if any. Maybe none, thinking about it. Do you mean the Folkmagic that is found in Romania? I think that, yeah, there could be connections. If you watched my video with Dr James Kapalo, we talked about Folk Witchcraft in the Republic of Moldova, which is not Romania, but I have talked with other scholars. So you can see in that interview that there are some overlaps between Italian Witchcraft and the, you know, the Witchcraft in Italy and Folk Witchcraft in the Republic of Moldova. Also, at conferences, I have met other scholars studying Folk Witchcraft in other Eastern European countries, and it seems there are many overlaps—actually, both in Central and Eastern Europe. Yeah, I have spoken with scholars who are focusing. They are doing their fieldwork in Eastern Europe or Central Europe, and there seem to be overlaps. I think it would be amazing to have a European-wide project on Folk Witchcraft and see whether, you know, we can identify what the source, perhaps, was of that specific way of engaging with folk Witchcraft. You know, if there is one, if there is one source and then it is spread through other countries or whether you know it’d be interesting to understand the historical development because we have no data at the moment about it. But it seems to me my perception is that there is some kind of connection, some kind of historical connection, but we don’t have the data to make any conclusion on it at the moment. It’d be nice to have that kind of research, but it would require many different scholars from different countries and a lot of funding, which, as you may well know, is extremely difficult to find, especially for these topics. So we will see if they have if that ever happens.

Let me see if there are other questions.

Do you happen to know if Crowley investigated the local Italian magical traditions while he worked on his own Magick in Cefalu?

That’s an interesting question. I don’t think Crowley did, no. The thing is that the old generation of Italian Witches, and we are talking about Folk Witchcraft here, were extremely Catholic, and they still are. The new generation of Segnatore, the folk Magick practitioners, are now starting to syncretise the Segnature practices more with Paganism and other forms of spirituality. But it is a very recent phenomenon. So, when Crowley was in Sicily, it’s improbable that he got in contact with an Italian Witch. First, because they were highly Catholic and second, because Italian Witches, especially the old generation, are quite secretive; they don’t go around saying that they are Witches. You will only know they are the town’s healer if you’re a part of the community. So it’s quite secretive. It was quite secretive, now less so with social media. There is more openness on the part of the new generation of Segnatore, but at the time, it’s improbable. I’m not saying it is impossible just because I haven’t done research on that specifically, but it is extremely unlikely knowing Crowley, what he did there, and how the old generation of Italian Witches would behave. But it’s an interesting question, though. Ethnography is a core research method and has long been celebrated for its capacity to provide an in-depth, nuanced understanding of social and cultural phenomena. Its strength lies in its ability to explore contexts, delve into a complex web of meanings, and comprehend the lived experiences of individuals and communities.

Let me see if there are other questions.

Did the Cult of Diana actually exist and have any effect on Italian witches?

Thank you for the donation, by the way. Yes, the cult of Diana was very present in Italy. Yes, and it still is. So, the influence on Italian Witches is difficult to tell because Italian Folk Witchcraft, up until recently, was very Catholic. So the Italian, if you look at the Segnature, for instance, the Segnature are the central gestures, the central Magick practice in Italian Witchcraft. It is a combination of signs and gestures and words uttered; well, actually, they are not uttered because they are pronounced in a particular way, in a way that they cannot be heard. So, they are pronounced in words in a way. A few of them showed me that it’s an interesting technique because it is believed that if people who are not initiated hear those words, they lose power. So considering that Italian Witchcraft, I would imagine in the past 100 years, perhaps 200 years, going back to because I, you know, I only have the data from my fieldwork. My fieldwork is on the contemporary world. Some of my informants have talked about their parents, grandparents and great-grandparents. So I think the farthest back I can go is 200 years, stretching it back. So, the Italian Witches were extremely Catholic for the past couple of centuries.

So I would say that the influence that Diana or Diana, as you would say in English, has played as a Goddess was not as massive unless there is some historical development that can link, you know, these folk Magick practices to Diana farther back in history but I don’t have data on that. However, there was a widespread cult of Diana, you know, further back in time, and you still find temples throughout Italy. And now there are Pagans that, you know, the contemporary Pagans have reclaimed those kinds of worship of specific deities. So you have temples of Diana all over Italy. You also have the idea of Diana Lucifera, Diana Lucifer, where Diana is associated with Lucifer. So, I can see that some people would perceive that as a connection with what Leland wrote, but it’s not the case. So you have the worship of Diana and the association of her, but even Apollo, for instance, was called Apollo Lucifero, and Diana was called Diana Lucifera. So, in this case, it was a kind of an epithet for them to say that they bring the light. And so no, I wouldn’t say that as far as my data go, you know, based on my data, I don’t see a connection between the Italian Witchcraft practices and Diana.

Maybe if I could do a more historical study and trace back the contemporary folk magic practices and see how they developed historically, I could have more information about them. But based on what I know, I think it is improbable. But now, as I said, the new generation of Segnatore, the new generation of Italian Witches are syncretising with Paganism. So you find some of them are working with Diana and practising the Segnature. Still, it is a more recent development because, you know, many people might not be interested in getting the Segnature passed down to them. So, it is more likely that the family member will want to be initiated because usually, it’s only one family member, at least in the past; now, things are changing, and I recommend watching my videos on the matter if you want to know more. But the member of the family that is more likely to want to be initiated is interested in Paganism because they value those kinds of practices more, which means that Paganism and pagan Witchcraft heavily influence the latest developments of Italian Witchcraft. And so, in that case, you have the reclaiming and reintegration of ancient pagan Gods.

Oh, interesting an Italian. He says that his mother practices the Segnatore but paradoxically she doesn’t consider them Magick because she’s a Catholic.

Yeah, Luca, this is exactly right. It’s exactly what I found in my research. So the old generation of the Segnatore, people who practice Segnature, have exactly that mindset. They even wouldn’t consider themselves Witches. They wouldn’t call it Witchcraft because they are very Catholic, and Witchcraft is not a good thing for Catholics. So thank you for your contribution, Luca. This aligns with all the data I collected during my PhD.

It’s also interesting that I get emails, messages, and comments, which I adore, so thank you again, Luca, for confirming that. Another thing that I found interesting is that a lot of people across Italy send me emails saying, oh really, this is all around Italy. I thought it was just my town that had, you know, this kind of particular thing going on. And so because it’s been very insular in a way, it is widespread and insular simultaneously. Because people just wouldn’t say out loud, they just wouldn’t, you know, disseminate the knowledge that they have. One of the things that they think is that if you talk about it and brag about it, you will lose power. So they tend to be quite secretive about it, and usually, only the community knows they can do those specific things, those specific segments. So yeah, there you go, and I’m flattered that you know there are Italians that are acknowledging that these practices are not only happening in their family or their town because there’s been a lack of research on Italy, you know, on the whole peninsula which is why I did a PhD on it. Usually, a PhD needs to be on something that has not been researched.

You’re most welcome.

Have you explored more oriental systems of Magick? If so, which one of them is the most fascinating and interesting in your opinion? For example, Japanese magick and Thai Shamanism.

You may know that I studied, I started as a Buddhologist. Well, I wanted to be in Buddhist studies, to begin with, when I was still an undergraduate student. When I was specialising, I specialised in Indian and Tibetan traditions. I also learned Sanskrit and Tibetan, ancient and modern Tibetan. Well, classical, they say classical and modern Tibetan because I was studying those kinds of traditions. So I’ve also studied, as part of my program at the university, Japanese religions and Chinese religions. So, I had specific exams because I have a second major in Eastern Philosophies and Religions. But I’d say that I’m particularly fascinated by Tantric Buddhism, Tantra, and Yoga, maybe because there’s more Magic there. I gravitate around the traditions that incorporate more Magic for some reason. Yeah, my core interest is Magick. So I tend to get interested mainly in the traditions that have some Magick in them, so those are the traditions that I’m most fascinated by.

Humane Ventures is asking, could a non-Italian be initiated into an Italian practice or would that be considered appropriation?

Oh, I have to make a video on cultural appropriation because it is long overdue. So this is complicated. I wouldn’t say that it classifies as appropriation for reasons that I would explain in my video because first, I have to explain what culture is to explain what cultural appropriation is. I will probably upset a few people because of culture, and, you know, I will list my sources, as always, in that video because culture is not something that is linked to your DNA and the percentage of your ethnicity. Culture is land; culture is something that you live and breathe, and it is something that becomes part of your identity as you develop, as you grow up and as you can become enculturated in a culture that is different from the one you were born in. If you, for instance, move to a different country but Anthropologists do not consider the cultural identity to be, and Social Scientists to be your DNA, would it be cultural? I don’t think that it would be appropriation, and I think that a non-Italian could be initiated if they find, you know, an Italian who is willing to initiate them.

I think the new generation of Segnature is a bit more open to initiating outside the family because the traditional way would be to only initiate somebody in your bloodline, in your family. So you will only initiate your grandchild, for instance, that’s the most common thing that the grandmother or the grandfather initiates the grandchild, for instance, that’s the typical thing in the traditional system. But now the new generation of Signature is becoming a bit more open, so they are also willing to initiate people not within the bloodline. However, they would… I’m not sure; I think that it depends. It would be difficult for a non-Italian to be accepted to the point where… because, you know, at least in the traditional way, you can only initiate one person; you cannot initiate more than one person. So I would say that it is a bit unlikely. But with the new generation of Segnature, it may be more possible because they are more open to initiating people outside the bloodline. I’ve never heard of non-Italians being initiated in my research; never, that has come up in interviews. But it could be theoretically possible if anyone in Italian who has been initiated is willing to initiate you. The thing is that I’m, yeah, I thought about whether it could be a problem to understand the Signatures, though, because they are either in Italian or a local dialect.

Can prayer in Abrahamic religions be considered Magic? Since it’s common for magical practices to be forbidden in these religions.

I dislike getting into Abrahamic religions because it’s not my speciality. But I would say that prayer and Magic are two different things. However, you can use prayer in a magical practice. So I’d say that it depends. So, for instance, you use the Psalms, which are pretty standard in Hoodoo and other magical practices. In contemporary magical practices, you find that practitioners will also use Bible passages. So I guess they could also use prayers, but it depends, I think, on the prayer and the way it is done, and in, for instance, Catholicism or Christianity, I’d say that that’s not Magic. It becomes magic when it is framed in a ritualistic, magical setting. I hope that’s clear enough. If not, let me know.

Thank you, Pander Sera.

Oh, you’re really nice, thank you so much, I’m not sure, Icculus.

Oh hi, James. Oh yeah, you were saying that secrecy has its value.

Oh, you’re saying that you grew up in Florida, USA, as a Catholic, and my Southern Baptist family said it was Witchcraft.

Yeah, I think Witchcraft is usually up for debate, and of course, as you know, there’s a difference between the emic and etic definitions. The emic definition of a term is how practitioners would describe something, and the etic definition is how scholars would define something. And, of course, the methodology for doing that is entirely different because practitioners can define something for many different reasons that, you know, are perhaps even personal biases. So I think that a lot of people, especially those that belong to Abrahamic religions, tend to use the term Witchcraft as an othering term, which means when there is a practice that they find not acceptable, they other it by saying it is Witchcraft, meaning, you know, it’s not allowed, it’s forbidden, it’s other than what we do. So, it has been often used as a term of othering. Not by, you know, contemporary Magick practitioners but by those who are not part of a Magick community, Magick-practising community and belong to an Abrahamic religion. I found it quite recurring that Witchcraft is used as another term. So, the definition there is a bit blurred.

Thank you Christopher Blair for your donation. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. That’s really kind of you.

Oh, you’re lovely Human Ventures.

Thank you for your donation, Hank. So is the Italian Magick initiation a passing of power in it being one-to-one?

So, do you mean whether the initiation happens one-to-one? If so, yes, usually that’s what happens. The initiation usually takes place on the night of Christmas Eve. So either between the sunset of Christmas Eve and the dawn of Christmas or, more commonly, at midnight, and you know, between the two days, and yes, usually it is one-to-one. So there is the, you know, usually the grandmother or the grandfather, more commonly the grandmother, who initiates the grandchild, and you have certain regions where you also have male practitioners, but the majority of Segnatore or Segnatrici, in this case, is a female. And yeah, it is one-to-one, and they pass down the initiation, and they pass down the words of power, and yeah, that’s how it happens on a one-to-one basis. I think that this is one of the things that I argue in my PhD that, you know, to make a point that it is because I argue in my PhD that the Italian Witchcraft tradition is the indigenous Italian Shamanism. And I know I’ve spent a chapter on why it is indigenous and another on why it can be called Shamanism. So I don’t want to keep you here for another hour. Still, yeah, one of the points that I made when I argued for it to be an indigenous practice is that the difference between indigenous religions, one of the traits of indigenous religions, is the oral transmission of knowledge and the fact that it is usually either on a one-to-one basis or very personalized. It is not a standardized, mass-delivered knowledge as you would find, for instance, in other trans-cultural practices where you have courses, books, or recordings. So you don’t have any such thing in an indigenous religion. You have that knowledge transmitted and passed down on a more personal, individually tailored basis.

Does all Magic go back to Hebrew and the holy names of God and Kabbalah?

No, definitely not. So many different forms of Magick have little or nothing to do with that, but the Western Esoteric Tradition has been massively influenced by what you mentioned.

So I think that we can wrap up our Live Stream for today. I hope I haven’t missed any questions and if so, just leave them in the comment section because then, you know, when I go back and watch the chat I always realize that there is something that I have missed. But before we wrap up this conversation, first I want to thank you all for coming over and being in the chat. It was lovely to be chatting with you guys and also I’d like to remember you that this project, of delivering academic free knowledge on YouTube and my social media, is really only possible thanks to your support and if you have the means that can help at all, I would really appreciate it if you could support my work with a one-off PayPal donation, by joining Memberships – next to the subscribe button, or by joining my Patreon community which I’m really proud of. I always talk about my Patreon community everywhere, even with colleagues. Because it’s, you know, I’m really proud of my Patreon community not only because of the financial support but also because we have created an amazing community on Discord. There is a book club, we have monthly lectures and for instance, last Magus’s lecture was delivered by one of my Patrons, Dave. Thank you again, Dave, who volun-told to deliver a lecture on AI future of technology and Witchcraft. So yeah, I’m really proud of that so if you want to join my Patreon community you will be joining this amazing community of brilliant people and you know, academically inclined members and also support my work. So it’s a win-win if you ask me. And also, if you are watching this now or whether you’re watching it later and if you enjoyed this conversation, please don’t forget to SMASH the like button, subscribe to the channel and activate the notification bell so you will never miss a new upload from me.

And thank you, Hank, for your donation. For chocolate and wine, I’m just about to go out with friends so thank you very much for that, really appreciate it.

So yeah and thank you all for being here and sharing my videos around and helping this community grow. And I Hope You Stay Tuned For All The Academic Fun.

Bye for now.